Welcome to the Fire and Beer podcast. This is your host, Marcel Gomez. I have some very exciting news. I know you haven't heard this voice in quite some time. Last episode of Fire and Beer season one was of April of twenty twenty two at Alternate Ending, which we happen to be at today with also some super exciting news.

We have two additional cohosts that are joining us today. First one being Dan, the man, the myth, the legend, mister Holloway, and the one and only Zach Ross from Marlowe, Artisanal Ailes. Did I just mess up your last name? No? You looked at me crazy when I said that.

At least you didn't call me Zack Marlowe like most people. I was going to, I was going to. So I'm super excited today, while we're at Alternate Ending, we have two very special guests, Scott Novak from Alternate Ending, as well as, co owner of LITA as well. Sort of. Sort of.

Not not sort of. Not at all. And Definitively. The general manager of LITA, Danny McGill. Thank you guys for joining us today.

Hello. Hello. Hello. How's it going? Very, very exciting times.

I'm so excited to talk to you guys all. Today we're going to have a discussion around hospitality, Alita, some very exciting news, with very interesting perspectives from both Zach and Dan, and I'm really excited to talk to you both today. Oh, thanks, man. Happy to be here. Yeah.

Alright, man. So let's let's kick it off, Dan. Well well, first, let's talk about this. You know, you, you talked to me about, hey, the idea of bringing the podcast back and what you wanted to do, and I said, I love the idea. Let's just kinda have beer and talk to people even if they're not beer industry people.

So, actually, Scott, tell us about what we're drinking right now because this is the perfect beer to have for this podcast. Yeah. So this is Bomba, and it's fitting that Danny's here because this, beer was, basically conceived is that the right word for a beer? Yeah. Conceived in The idea.

Yeah. The idea. Yeah. Between me and the Yes. Alright.

Never know now. Yeah. In Spain, so we were doing, research for Lida, and we were in Valencia. We just had one of the best, paellas. I think he had to order it like two weeks in advance.

It was, you know, probably like a a 50 yard, open hearth that these people have been cooking on for how many years and had the craziest wine and and we got back to our patio upstairs and just talking about, like, what can we do now, to to to do a beer for Lita, that would really bring in both both enhance the flavor of the paella, or not enhance the flavor of the paella, complement the flavor of the paella, and be something different, and, unique. So we're like, well, why don't we use paella rice? So we were sitting there, Ricardo, was with us, a beverage director, Vlida, and we're like, what if we use paella rice, and a little bit of the saffron that we got at the market. Yep. Yep.

And of course I come up with these crazy ideas and tell Brendan and he's like, another fucking idea. Like using basil and, yeah, well that was roller, but, Saffron's real cheap. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

That's like the most expensive thing in Yep. So, yeah. So we came back and we got, Bomba paella rice and, Brendan did his research on the, you know, the temperature that it gelatinized at and, you know, he went all scientific on it. And we brewed it with Neely, Dave, you know, Danny, Ricky, and I don't know if anyone else was there, but, yeah. We brewed it all together.

Dave did his little, salt bae with the The saffron. Yeah, the saffron. And it was, it just came out to be this beautiful beer, that's one of my favorites that we do, if not my favorite, because I always go to it. And, you know, it just gets that little hint of saffron, gives a little color at the end, the finished product. And really, we're gonna go tonight and, have some dinner at Lida and this beer pairs so well with the paella there and the other food too, so that's the nexus of this beer.

That is actually really beautiful, and very very interesting. So let's talk about how Lita happened. Where did it all, where did it all begin? I I mean, I think it's kind of the brainchild of chef David Vienna. Right?

But I think it comes back to Dave and I have been working together for eighteen years and been friends for eighteen years. We met at a restaurant, in Warren, New Jersey called Upper. When I started there, I was the head bartender and he was, you know, a line cook. And, I think kind of our friendship started there and and one of the things I think that led to the development of Lido is, you know, as any restaurateur knows, right, you know, your Saturdays, your Fridays are gonna be four times as busy as any other day of the week. Right?

It's the night that everybody goes out. And while everybody works four times as hard, there was only really one side of that team that was seeing four times the amount of money. Right? So, you know, we'd work on a Saturday night and go out for drinks and, you know, we both worked our asses off and but I was the only one who had four times the amount of money in my pocket. Right?

So it was like, well, I got drinks tonight, I guess. You know? Like, and there's the disparage the the disparity there really is kind of upsetting. Right? You know, that's hard work in the kitchen.

Right? Those guys are pumping things out. And it didn't make sense to Dave, right, where he was always just kind of seeing that $18 an hour, whatever it was at that time, no matter how hard or how little he worked or how much he worked, that just didn't change. Now for me, you know, there anybody who worked in the front of the house, there was that ebb and flow of of what money you were gonna bring in, but at least when you knew you were working harder, you were going to see more money. That was not necessarily true for the back of the house.

So I think for Dave, what he really was looking to do was create a little more equity, you know, in in the model that we do. So at Lida, what we have is, two teams. So one team will work in the kitchen one week and then rotate to the front of the house the next So they're cross trained in both the kitchen and the front of the house. So they work as captains and back waiters, and it's an entire pool for the entire staff. Right?

So whether you're in the kitchen, you're in the pool, or whether you're in the front of the house, you're in the pool, it's just one united team. Right? Our bar staff is in that tip pool as well, and we're now starting to work towards moving our our chefs behind the bar. Because it'll be interesting to see, you know, from a culinary aspect, you know, what their minds kind of can bring to our beverage program. Ricky himself is kind of culinary focused, you know, with his cocktails to begin with, so I think that insight from, you know, the chefs would be really interesting.

I'm sorry. You said freaky? Freak Who's the Ricky. Ricky. Ricky.

Ricky. Okay. You can be a little freaky. You know what? I'll never drinking anything else now.

He's forever known as freaky. And so who's Ricky? Ricky's the beverage director at Lida. Yeah. So, and he he also worked in kitchens.

He was a chef as well. So there's a lot of kind of, the perspective that he attacks his beverage program with I think is a lot of, you know, comes It does come from a culinary background and he uses a lot of those skills and the way he builds flavors and creates flavors in his cocktails. So I think having the chefs kind of rotate back there as well would be something that he would benefit from as well. But ultimately I think it was all kind of, you know, it really does come from Dave. I mean obviously the restaurant's named after his mother.

You know, it's an homage to, or a love letter to the food that he grew up eating, you know. And I think the model of what we do stems back to those Saturday nights where we were drinking and, you know, it's, you know, I got the tab. But, you know, and and I'll say this, it's not that I always did, you know, I'm a big believer that it always comes back around, you know. I'll, you know, if I have to pick it up five, six, seven times, I'm not keeping count because I can guarantee Dave took care of it nine, ten, or twelve. You know what I mean?

So, you know, but I do think kind of coming out on a Saturday night and realizing, you mean how much tonight? Was something that kind of stuck with him over time, you know, and he wanted to create something a little more equitable, a little bit more utopian as far as what we do, you know, in this industry. And so that was the assumption of the, of just like the business model you guys had in mind. So when you talk about, like, Lida, a lot of people dream of opening a business or a restaurant and going through that process, but there is a difference maker between that idea and then starting the process of execution. Where how did that come from inception of like, hey, this is I have a cool idea to the workflow to where it is today.

Recently nominated, what, January 22 nominated for, a James Beard award? Best chef mid mid Atlantic. Yep. Congratulations to Dave on that one. That's a huge honor.

We're we're all a %. Yeah. Huge huge, I mean, we're all pulling for them. You know, and then last year we were nominated for, best new restaurant, mid Atlantic. So I mean, the accolades are fantastic.

I don't think it's as we were talking about before this, it's not what you do it for. But who doesn't like a nice pat on the back occasionally? You know what I mean? It's Absolutely. I don't think it's why we do it, but every now and then when I think, you know, especially when James Beard comes along and says, you know, like, hey, we see what you're doing.

It's just a nice feeling. Whether we whether he wins or not, I think it's just nice to be nominated. It's just a phenomenal honor. So, but to to answer your question, you know, from talking about it and and getting to where we are today, It's just It's constantly communicating not only with your partners, but with the staff to make sure, I think, that they under They fully understand the, the idea that you're trying to accomplish and buying into what you're really trying to do. Right?

I think ultimately, you know, you As a as an owner and as a as a general manager of that space, I've realized that, you know, my job is to constantly re like reintroduce my love of what we're doing to make sure the kids understand it and embody it. And if if they're not embodying it, that's not on them, that's on me. Right? Like, ultimately, their failures are because of me. It has to start and end with me.

And I think chef looks at his kitchen the same way. I look at the floor the same way. I'm sure Ricky looks at his his bar team and his program the same way. Like, any shortcomings that we have ultimately start and end with us. Right?

You know, anytime something goes wrong, I have to ask myself, well, what could I have done to prevent that kid from making that mistake? Right? And ultimately, there's a breaking point. Right? There there there comes a point in time where I go, I've done everything I can.

Maybe this just isn't the right fit anymore. This doesn't work. But you have to kinda, you know, you have to ask yourself, what can you do better? Right. And sometimes you can't.

Sometimes it just is what it is. But it really is our job to, I think, keep people passionate about what they do and where they're doing it. And that's by giving them opportunities, by educating, by, you know, bringing the energy while you're there, you know. If if I'm coming in and miserable every day, I can't expect everyone to be happy when they're taking care of the guests. It's a real simple formula, man.

You keep the kids happy, they keep the guests happy. If the guests are happy, I'm happy. So if I'm happy, I'll keep the kids and around and around we go. Like, just don't be a prick. I think it's that simple.

You know? Like Well, it's a good thing, though. I think you need a pat on the back because to train chefs, much like brewers, you know, a lot of times introverted, they want to be in the back, they aren't customer facing, and for you to be able to train these kids to, who are who are chefs first, to be customer facing servers, That's insanely hard and impressive. And it takes someone like you to do it. I mean, what was that like?

It was a trip. I remember, you know, in the beginning, Dave had so, we hire chefs and then train them to work in front of the house. So we don't have any, like, people who worked front of the house and then trained them to be a chef. I think it'd be much more complicated in reality. Yeah.

And I remember in the beginning, Dave was like, oh, I hired, you know, like, 60% or 70% of these guys have, like, got front of the house experience. I was like, oh, that's amazing. Like, let's go. And then we did the first week of training and I was like, you're a liar. I was like, you dirty liar.

I was like, and, you know, and some of these guys had in culinary school done, you know, a shift at a restaurant or like a week at a restaurant. That's not necessarily the same thing. And our style of service is a little bit different as well. But, I I think to your point, there were there were certainly people who were, intimidated by being guest facing, you know. And then there were other people that were, I think so The fact that they went to a guest and the guest would immediately be like, oh, you're you're a chef.

You work in the kitchen? And they're like, oh, you wanna know about me? And I'm like, dude. And they would just camp. They're now talking to that guest because that guest And I'm like, you have five other tables.

Like, we have to go, man. Like, we gotta move. So getting them to, I guess, look at the floor the same way that they would look at the kitchen as far as, like, their mise en place and where they're putting their forks, their knives, you know, like, the intensity and the movement. Right? Like, creating muscle memory.

The one thing I didn't have to teach them, right, which was innate in them was the love for the food and the connection to the food. Right? I mean, who better to describe a dish to you than the guy who just cooked it last week? Right? They they have a true connection to that plate, to that dish, to those ingredients, to the technique.

Right? They could more often than not, they can describe a dish much better, in more depth than I could. You know, they they just have a deeper connection to it. It really was about getting them comfortable with themselves and finding ways to connect. And once they knew they could connect through the food and their love for it, and the guests would kind of meet them halfway there, then the conversation became easy for them.

Well, I'll say this, when I had dinner there, the the person that came to serve mentioned that he was a chef, and what you just said you didn't want happening happened because I had a bunch of questions. You know? I wanna I wanna talk to this you know, you have made the food. Okay. Like, I have now questions about food.

Or if I go to a restaurant and it's just a server, I might not have as many in-depth questions because they may not be able to answer it, and I realize that. Yeah. I mean, we had to I want you to have that experience. Right? I want you to be able to ask all those questions.

I want you to really make a connection with the with the dishes that we're trying to put out. Right? I just need everybody to, I need the service to be able to know when to disconnect and make sure that they're paying attention to everyone in the restaurant. Right? Like, it's nice to make a connection, but I think you have to offer everybody that same connection.

And we we talk about that a lot. The balance. Without question. No. You know, I mean, who's been to a restaurant before and you sit down and the table next to you is being fawned over and things are going out and everyone's And you're like, who What did I do wrong?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, where's my experience? You know, so I think we ultimately have to be aware of that, like, that space is a shared space, therefore it's a shared experience. So everyone who comes in that door has to have the same experience. Right?

The guy who walks in at 05:00 on a Friday or 09:45 on a Tuesday needs to have that same experience. Right? So, you know, if you're going to connect with one table, great, but make sure you're giving that same energy to the next one. Right? And that's if they want it.

Not everybody wants to have that. You know, there's some people who are coming in on their first date, they don't want a charming chef to come over and, you know, talk about food. You know, they're like, dude, get out of here, man. Like, so it's it's it's paying attention and, yeah. It's a super interesting dynamic that I never really thought of because normally the stigma of a cook is like the soup Nazi, just get the food, get out of here, I got tickets to serve, I don't really have the soft skills needed, nor do I have any desire to, like, talk with the customer, I just want to make the food.

And so that onboarding process has to be intense to really just understand, like, where do they stand on that scale? Do they have a personality outside of cooking? Yeah. Can can can they hold a conversation and have, like, the emotional intelligence to understand that I gotta run over here too and and connect with them and but also not disturb the meal. Right?

Because sometimes people will talk just to be polite. Yeah. And they're like, hey man, I just want to eat this, you know, what do you what I have in front of me. So The plate's been in front of me for ten minutes. Right.

It's cold. And look, I think the nice thing about our model is that you don't necessarily have to be guest facing in the sense that you have to be, like a captain, you know, or a server, whatever term you wanna use. For we do have some people who don't necessarily like to interact with the guests that much, and then you're back waiters. And because the pool is set up the way that it is, and I think it's appreciating the role that everyone has, because ultimately, like, I can't run the restaurant if every bartender calls out. I can't run the restaurant if every back waiter calls out.

I can't run, you know. We we have to appreciate everybody's role. Right? So you can not be guest facing, still work the front of the house, and just back wait. But because you don't you're not making less than that captain, you can just spend your energy being the best back waiter you can.

Right? You're not trying to become a server because you're going to make more money. It's just you We can We appreciate your role and what that adds to our success. Right? Because our success can't happen without everybody doing their part.

And I think we've put the same weight on no matter what you're doing. So our expectation for a back waiter is is, I think, a lot heavier than most restaurants would be because you are making the same as everyone. You have to hold your weight. And there's a bit of a kitchen mentality there, which is nice, is that they do all they do sell police a little bit, you know? But because it's also a kitchen mentality, there's a lot of, like in house education.

Right? Like, I personally make sure that I train anybody who's starting any new role. Right? At least for the first two days, and then then I will turn them over to the rest of the staff because I want you to know, alright, these are my expectations. This is our steps of service.

I don't need you to say it the way that I do, because I want you to be comfortable with the words that you use. Like, don't trip over my words, just here are the bullet points Right. You need to hit. Don't read the script. Exactly.

Right. We don't have a script. There's bullet points. Right. There's things that you need to address, but how you get there is really unimportant to me.

So once they understand that, then I can turn them over to the staff, and the staff go, yeah, I know Danny says this way, but I I find it easier this way. And then they kind of self polish those stones in house, and then those kids figure it out themselves, and it's much more natural. Right? There's, I think, a better connection with the guest that way. So it's nice that that having that kitchen mentality up front really does benefit us.

So for for those who don't know what Lida is, how would you kind of explain the cuisine, the style of restaurant, the atmosphere? Like, and and and then a brief summary, how how would you explain it to some of you? So it's it's Iberian. So it, you know, there's a collection of dishes, from Spain and Portugal. And I think what David's done is everything is, again, a bit of an a love letter to the dishes he grew up eating and and was exposed to, but now he's kind of elevated them, modernized some of them, and and made them, I think, simultaneously approachable, yet interesting and challenging, which is, I think a tough thing to do.

You know, when you're it's tough to take dishes that people have known forever, grew up eating, you know, and change them in a way that people don't get upset. Right? Like, be like, I grew up every day having this on Saturday mornings, and this is not how my mom made it. It's usually the response you're going to get, but I think Dave makes them reminiscent, but new. And that ability is amazing to me because people are like, oh my God, this is so different than what I've had.

But it's It does kind of taste like my mom's. Right? That's That ratatouille moment? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like a phenomenal thing that he's capable of. But yeah, I mean it's For us, it's, I think it's just a fun space to try some cuisine that I think most people aren't, typically exposed to. And if you are, I think, you know, you're having that really bright yellow paella from Newark, which I'm I'm not knocking, you know, it's it's it's a From the area? Yeah. It's Yeah.

It's I think it's traditional American Portuguese food. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's it's just different than what we're doing. I think what when we were in Spain, right, I think what we saw was closer to what we're doing at in at Lita now.

Right? You know, Spanish food isn't the same it was fifty, sixty, seventy years ago. It it's also progressed the way that American cuisine and the dining scene has progressed. Right? So we're just kind of, I think, matching what they're doing currently in Spain and Portugal.

Right? So, I I think you're getting, you know, the truest Spanish and Portuguese dining experience without going to Spain and Portugal. So, so would you consider Lida a fine dining restaurant? No. Okay.

No. I we bar no. No. We no. I wouldn't you know, like, and I can hear Neely, my partner in my head, like, saying, you know, we're we're polished, not pretentious.

Right? And, and I love I love that. Yeah. At the bar. Yeah.

It is. And I love it though because I think there's a lot we do borrow a lot of steps of service from fine dining as far as how we, you know, engage with the table and how we take care of a table, but ultimately, I think what's first and foremost we have to worry about is making connection and being engaging and making you feel comfortable and welcomed and at home. Right? And providing, like, a just an enjoyable experience for you. We're not white glove.

We're not white table cloth. You know? But, yeah, we do crumb clear and remark after every course. Right? You know, we are hugging the guest every time we put a plate down or we're clearing or any of those things.

So, we we borrow things that are important. I think that separate us from from most restaurants in the state. But no, I don't think we're fine dining. The perfect example, the first course, you don't serve with silverware. No.

That's right. With your hands. Yeah. And like, talk about not being pretentious. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's served like a like a traditional Spanish tapa. Right? So the idea is while we're kind of that first bite is supposed to be enjoyed with that drink that just hit the table.

So it's, you know, a snack in one hand, a drink in the other. Right? Just as we were sitting in Spain ordering a round of drinks, and they'd put a snack down on the table. Yeah. We're we're kind of calling and hearkening back to that.

And then we're a three course savory, prefix, so your next course would be kind of closest to your app, and then you're followed with your, you know, your entree, your third course, and then if you want, you can elect into dessert or not. But I I think that's what kind of makes us not fine. I hate that idea of fine dining or not fine dining. Like, you know, are we a great experience in the state of New Jersey? Yes.

That's it. You know? Does that make us fine dining? I I don't know. I don't know if I love that term.

You know? How do you set the expectations? So for instance, from outside looking in, I would look at Lida, I would look at the menu, I would look at the pictures, and my first thought is fine dining. Right? And so I'm, like you were talking about before, and maybe Zach and Dan, when I go in to get like Spaniard or Portuguese food, it's usually at a place that has a spinning rotisserie right in the front as you walk in.

Right? You're getting a plate the size of a table and you're and you're going through this process, and then you say, oh, I want to go check this place out, and you get intimidated. How do you what would you say to that person to go, hey, how do I break through that wall? Like, hey, sometimes I don't like this thing and it's on a prefix menu. You know, what what do you do?

I I mean Or is that not your customer? Not everybody is our customer, and that's okay. You know what I mean? Like, I I think in order to be special, you know, you can't be for everyone. Right?

Like, you know, Cheesecake Factory is for everyone. The page The menu is 50 pages long. You know what I mean? Like, it's made to be for everyone. It's not special.

Right? Like, and that's okay. There's a space for that, but then it should exist. I think in order for us to be special, we can't be for everyone. And then it doesn't mean, you know, I'm not going to try to figure out how to provide the best experience for somebody who walks through that door.

I'm also just not gonna get overly upset when somebody doesn't understand what we're doing or doesn't dig it. We're just not for everyone, and that's okay. Right? As long as I can say we did the best that we did in order to provide an experience for them. If it doesn't connect, it doesn't connect.

I don't love everything. You know? I can't expect everyone to love us. So, and I think that's a good way to kind of, you know, balance out with the kids when they're when they're like, I just can't get this to like, sometimes it's not you. Right?

Like, just kill them with kindness. Let's you know, we're gonna keep pushing and seeing what we can do, but if it doesn't connect, it doesn't connect. Not everybody's going to. I know Scott mentioned in the beginning, we when we were drinking bomba, the hearth. Right?

Yeah. And, you know, that's very Iberian. And you talk about you're not fine dining. There's not white tablecloths. And I I I think part of the aesthetic also brings that out.

It has that kind of communal Mhmm. Feel. So do you wanna talk about that? I mean, that was obviously done on purpose. The the hearth?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that whole space is kind of transportive. I mean, we're we're basically right up against the parking lot. Right?

And then I I think you kind of well, I mean, we're essentially in a strip mall, so, you know, you're kind of like, what kind of restaurant is gonna be in a strip mall? And we wanted that space to be a little transportive. Right? And the first thing you walk in, you see is that beautiful coal fired hearth. Right?

And then and any fire is just warming, right, and engaging and comforting. And and but from Dave's perspective, I mean, that's all about flavor. Right? I mean, that's that's imparting that smoke, you know, and that and that authenticity to what we do as far as the paella is. And, I mean, 90% of our proteins come off that hearth.

Right? Everything is gonna pretty much touch that fire. And I I think, but I mean the fact that everybody see I mean, you could have easily put that in the back. Nobody had to see it. But the fact that it's there kinda gives that That's the first thing you say.

It's very deliberate Yeah. Where it was designed. Yeah. A %. I mean, it's it's an it's an open kitchen.

Right? There is a little back kitchen, but that's mostly for production. You know, when we're in service, every chef is out front in the view of every guest in that restaurant. So, you know, we're certainly not hiding anything. You know, nobody is throwing dishes or cursing each other out because we are in plain sight, you know.

I'm sure they want to at times, but luckily it has not happened. But I I think, you know, that comes back from the time when Dave was working at Heirloom Kitchen. Right? And they they took a cooking school and made it into a serviceable restaurant for a couple nights a week to to see if it was something they could, have success in. And Dave, you know, during that time found out how much he loved kind of interacting with the guest.

Guest. Right? Because he was right there in front, you know, no further than we're sitting across from each other, and a guest would just start to ask them questions. And he saw how much he got, how rewarding it was for him to get that feedback from the guest, and to see their faces as they were eating his food. I mean, our kids, even if they're in the kitchen, you know, and they put a dish on the menu, get to see the guest's immediate reaction to them enjoying it.

And that that kind of feedback for them is huge, you know. I mean and also for the customer. Right? You feel special when you know that the guy that's serving you makes us food. Yeah.

You know? He may not have made your dish that day, but he did last week. Yeah. So it makes the customer feel a lot more special when you have that kind of entourage. I I I'm amazed at how many times I I walk through the dining room and I just see everyone with their head turned not talking to each other, just staring into the kitchen.

Right? Because it is like dinner and a show. You're like, nobody at the table is talking. They're all just kind of staring at at the guys working the hearth. They're, you know, as the pan flames up, as they're doing the camarallino, which is our garlic shrimp, you know, like, they're just focused in on that, you know, which is which is nice, you know?

It kind of In those moments where you need to buy a few extra minutes, minutes, you know, we're just, we're in it, you know, you're in the weeds, and they're at least completely distracted by what's going on in the kitchen. So benefits to it, absolutely. So Scott, how did you, I'm sorry, Zach. My bad. No, go ahead.

Zach, how did you, become a part of LITA and jump on to this program? Well, I've known Neli my entire life. She was, my girlfriend in fifth grade. Oh. She was in fourth grade.

We joke about it. She has, pictures of us slow dancing. It's really funny. And really, Neely is responsible for alternate endings. She will not take credit.

But, I was working overnights at other half, and I was using smelling salts just to get over the Driscoll Bridge without, crashing my car, and my wife at the time was just like, we can't do this anymore, let's just go have like a nice night out. So we went to our favorite restaurant in New Jersey, Heirloom Kitchen, And we're, and Neely was there, chef Dave was cooking, and, she's like, do you, you know, you're still working in the brewery industry? I'm like, yeah. She's like, do you want to open up a brewery? I'm like, yeah, one day.

And she's like, well, my my dad owns the, Bow Tie Theater space and they're not renewing their lease. He thinks it would be a good place for a brewery. His other daughter is in Colorado and there's a lot of breweries out there. I think that might have been an influence, just seeing the success of Colorado's brewery scene. And I'm like, yeah, I'll I'll meet with him.

So I met him and his, beautiful wife, Judy, on the Monday, because I was going into other half at, I guess, 09:00 at night to work, you know, until five in the morning. And, so I met with him and Judy and I told them about what my idea would be for for this space and it wasn't, a brew pub, it was a production brewery. So I didn't even have I don't know anything about running a restaurant, so that wasn't even in my mind. And he's like, alright, well maybe, you know, I'll give you half of it. I'm like, no Harry, I need the whole fucking thing.

He just laughed and he's like, alright, I like this kid. And, yeah, the the next week we were working on our LOI and, that's, a letter of intent. And, yeah, so so really, Neil Lee was responsible for this. And then, there was another opportunity in Philadelphia, that, we were gonna my wife and I were gonna invest in. And because of COVID, I would say it it went away.

They ended up doing a very successful pop up there. And they were, I guess, transitioning to a potential space somewhere somewhere in New Jersey. I can't even remember exactly where. Neely pitched it to me because the developer wanted a brewery there. And I was just like, I I'm not ready to open up a second space.

I'm not even crazy about the area. But I have an idea for Eli's Bagels, which I knew from the owner coming in and just complaining about, just not wanting to be involved anymore in his bagel shop, which is a bagel shop that's, shop that I went to as a kid because it was open twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, and we used to do late nights here. So this was very community, forward for me. And I told Neely, like, hey, like, I have this idea for Eli's, but what about you? Like, what about this for your idea?

And she's like, why didn't I think of that? And she's like, do you mind? I'm like, no, please, I don't want to do this, next door, so, but as long as I can invest. And, that was it. And, you know, no matter what Neil Lee and Dave touch, I know it's going to be successful.

And then I actually met Danny at Heirloom Kitchen at a, I think it was a screening for Top Chef. Yep. Yep. So I sat with Danny and his lovely mom. We drank probably a lot of Chardonnay that night or a big bottle of white wine.

Yep. And, I was like, you know, who is this guy? He's like the most interesting man in the world. The, like the Disseccis commercial. And then when I was opening up Alternate Ending, we ended up pivoting into a brew pub.

And again, I didn't know anything about running a restaurant, so at first, we were talking to Danny about being a consultant, and we actually we we hired you, and when you gave us your first invoice, I'm like it was what what was it? It was like some funny made up name. I'm like, is this really your company? It's like, no. Make it up to Danny.

Maybe It was, yeah, it was, Barney Stone Barney Stone Consulting, the BDS Consulting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm writing a check out.

I'm like, wait a this isn't right. I had cards made. Yeah. That's it. It's amazing.

And then Danny, well, Neil actually introduced me to the Tula folks, and I ran it by Danny and and he's like, you know, they're they make great food, good people, like, yeah, it makes sense for you guys. So, but all the while, you know, Lita is a thought, I guess, in in Chef David's mind and, it ended up and going next door, because Harry, Neely's father, owned, this entire lower section of of this place in Aberdeen. They were able to, come to an agreement that, Carrie was able to get out of Eli's, and then amazingly, I think Carrie takes credit for it, but I always said that, it would be really cool to make a speakeasy next door or whatever we do. And it so so happened the chiropractor wanted to retire. So then there La Otra was born and Yeah.

You know. Wasn't part of the original plan. Yeah. No. And, in New Jersey you can share a liquor license if you have a common space with a liquor cage that hits both of them.

So basically you got a two for one there, which is just brilliant. And then to add, Ricardo, who is part of the Philadelphia. Yep. So, and and speaking of him before, he came, a runner-up as the most imaginative bartender in the entire, is it world or country? Or Yeah.

It's in the world. It's, sponsored by, Bombace Avenue. Yeah. So, I mean, here's the dream team. You have, to me, the best chef I've I've ever met in my life.

Kyle, no no offense. You're you're amazing. But, you have the greatest, general manager who at the time was managing, what, four restaurants? Yeah. Before I came on to open up Air Limit at the Saint Laurent, we had a restaurant group.

It was three restaurants. Three restaurants. Yeah. And then, you know, this brilliant beverage director, Aneli, is just incredible. Extraordinary.

Yeah. She's she's, just amazing, you know. And and, she's she calls me a visionary sometimes. She's the visionary. And, so it was an easy decision, and I'm just lucky to be a part of it.

I'm enjoying the ride. I'm the silent partner that, gets to enjoy, you know, just going there and, you know, the team and and just being with my friends. And so it's really I'm just lucky. Yeah. That's a Oh.

Yeah. I wanna throw it back to pre Lita. Mhmm. Because this concept is something that's very interesting to me. The trip to Spain.

Mhmm. How long did you guys go for? Who went? What are some big takeaways, and what is something that you definitely implemented in Lida from that trip? I I mean, so it was Scott, Neely, David, myself, Brian, Lopes, who was our, opening CDC, Ricky, who went, and, Nick, who helps Aneli put together the wine program, when we first opened up.

Court Liquors. If you like wine, go to Court Liquors. Nick has the best selection of wine in this. Yeah. He he always says he's not a a sommelier.

You know, he's sommelier ish, but, he I I know I don't know anyone who is more well versed than than Nick's, you know. And what a selection. Right? Yeah. You know, all handpicked.

We were there for seven days. Yeah. Right? We were there for, you know, about seven days. We were there for a week.

What did I take away? Probably that I've never been more amazed that Brian can pack so many shoes into his suitcases. And and glasses. And glasses. I mean, it was amazing.

It was like a clown carved shoes. Just I was like, this is amazing. Great person to travel with, but just he's so he's so worried about his shoes. I bought a pair while we there, which is crazy to me. I had a carry on.

Nuts. I I I think, you know, I remember one restaurant we went to, to try a paella that was, it was all socarrat. It was just the socarrat paella, and it's not like socarrat was part or the crispy part of the the crispy rice. Right? Mhmm.

That's what they refer to as socarrat. This was in an all black socarrat paella. So there was no topping on it. It was just burnt rice on a pan. And, I remember thinking, I don't love this.

Right? I was like, this is not, like, this is not my favorite expression of what paella should be. Right? And it's somebody pushing it in a different way, which I think is interesting and it's creative, but I think after going back to the experience that Scott was talking about earlier where there's the seven of us sitting around on this table with a paella that's probably, you know, the size of the table. I mean, that that thing had to be three feet across.

It was huge. Rabbits, snails, chicken. Everything in there. Again, it was phenomenal. And having that more kind of traditional paella, I think, is what we really wanted to bring back.

Like, I think there's a a real balance to what David is doing as far as, like, you know, keeping things traditional while still making them new and fresh and presenting it in a different way. And you can go too far with it. Keep it so alive of the food product. Yeah. Exactly.

Like you can take it too far. And that's how that paella felt to me. I was like, this doesn't make sense. Like it was just black and it was all crunchy and it was I was like, it just wasn't enjoyable. Right?

And I think that's what I really wanted to take back was like It was so good on Instagram how they did it and all this stuff. Yeah. It was like a murdered alpaella. I was like, it was gangster. You know what I mean?

I was like, this is awesome. And then you ate it and you're like, no, it's not for me, man. You know? And and I think, you know, what we really kind of took away from that is like, what places did we enjoy the experience? Right?

And and that's it's everything. It's touch, taste, feel, smell. Right? It's the service. It's the communication.

Like, yeah, that was a beautiful restaurant, and there were some cool dishes, and they were definitely pushing the boundaries on on what you could do with food. And, but it didn't feel engaging and warm to me. It wasn't, you know, overall an enjoyable dining experience for me. But meanwhile, we went to a restaurant that's, you know, just off the water that's been there for a hundred years, if not longer, with this giant paella and a group of old, you know, Spanish men behind us that are teasing us because of our wine selection. You know, and I was like, this is the I could be here every day, you know?

And to me, like, you know, that's what I think I took away from it. It's like, you know, you it still needs to be engaging. It still needs to be fun. It still needs to be comfortable. Yeah.

You know, and it can still be challenging, but if if you're not comfortable and warm and all those other things, I think you can kind of lose people at that point. Yeah. And those gentlemen behind us, they go there once a year Yeah. And they've been doing it for like fifty years. And we all took pictures and they almost had doppelgangers of each of us in the picture.

And it it was great. And, yeah. So it was just They started pouring wine out at our table because they were like, you can't be drinking that. They had brought their own wine, they were pouring wine, but they were great. They were great.

They were fantastic. Yeah. Yeah, and then, you know, so Valencia and then we also went to Madrid and for me, it was being with all these incredible, food, food minds. And I, you know, I'm open to a lot of things, but there's certain, I was talking to Zach about this earlier, about mushrooms. Like I would, I can't eat mushrooms, cherries, and there was one other thing I I I can't eat.

And we're there and we go to this just like an exclusive mushroom place. Like this little man is It's actually named mushroom. Isn't it? Yeah. It's like named mushroom.

Yeah. It's like what? Like a two foot small charcoal grill. He's in a window and he's just cooking these mushrooms. And they almost like tasted like steak with all the juice and I was like holy shit.

I I can eat mushrooms now. And then, oh and then olives, I can't eat olives. And then Neely's like no you gotta try these olives in Spain. They're like loaded with MSG and then I learned the back stories, back story of MSG. So like we went around one night in Madrid.

One One night we went to the fancy Michelin restaurant, which was great, and you get to pick your own steak knife. It was super cool. Oh, it's Yeah. It was very cool. Yeah.

And then the other night we just went to like 10 different places and had a bite at each and every time we had a bite it came with another round of vermouth and, yeah, there was one place where we had to crawl under a bar to get to this back section and they serve this this plate that looks like french fries, but it's all like tiny fish. Yeah. And it was amazing. So just to open up my mind to different food and be around so many talented chefs and and people in the industry, it's and Zach, I don't know if you feel this way, being a brew pub, I feel like I have my foot in both the food industry, the restaurant industry, and the beer industry. For sure.

And I think it's the best of both worlds. So, you know, it's almost like you have two groups of friends. Like, I have my restaurant friends who I love, and then I have my beer friends who I love too, and then I have my childhood friends. I feel like my my life has started in my forties. And I love it.

Yep. Yeah. That's incredible. And it's from the beginning of this conversation, even up until now, AE learning that today, and then Lita, it's just been a collaborative effort with just a shared vision. And I think that's, like for me, that that's a super key takeaway because the vision was super, super clear.

There was just a supporting structure around it and building it up. And it goes back and and and answers, my initial question of like from the napkin, right, to a James Beard award, how did that happen? And it was just a collaborative effort with a bunch of I think it's surrounding yourself with the right people. Yeah. You know what I mean?

You know, just people who, like you said, are collaborative but supportive. And that's ultimately, you know, just making sure that, you can communicate what you need and and want and desire, and you have people that go, cool. I'm here for it. Let's let's make it happen. That's it.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, again, all credit goes to Dave as far as kind of coming together with the idea of the restaurant and how we wanted service to go. And and I'm so blessed to be a part of it, but, you know, my job is just to go, heard. Let's go. Like, I I can make that happen.

You know what I mean? Give me the challenge, you know. But if you don't have people who are willing to hear you out and support you in what you're doing, you're just never going to find success. And that's not to say you can't ever nay say anything, it's just, you know, you need people who want to support you. Where does your well of inspiration come from to inspire your crew?

You've talked about how you're inspiring. You know, you've got a staff, you've got to inspire passion, you've got to inspire customer service into the people who work for you, but you haven't talked about where that comes from you. Is it something in your childhood that inspired you to, like, serve other people? Because it's it's long hours. It's grueling.

Like, you have to deal with customers Yeah. Who sometimes are very unhappy. We we all know this, but, like, where does that come from for you? You know, my childhood, really. I I I'm Irish, you know, and, so growing up, my father actually had a full working bar in our basement, like a three tier, you know.

I can remember from, you know, the age of five sneaking back there just to pretend to be a bartender, and, you know, my parents entertained a lot. So we always had people over. Right? They they were you know, even, you know, my father, you know, passed away just shortly after COVID, and, you you know, people would come up to me and the one thing they always, like, said to me was like, you know, I'm gonna miss your father. He never let your drink go dry.

You know, like, he was the first guy to, like, you know, you had half a drink, he was already making you another one. Right? You know? My friends would come over to the house and, you know, I wouldn't even be there. My mom likes to joke around about my friends Craig and Zach coming into the house, going right into the freezer, making themselves Hot Pockets.

And then my mom would be like, Danny's not here. And they'd be like, we don't care. We're just gonna sit and hang out with you. Like, and then we're like, we're like, okay, sure. Great.

You know, so my parents were always the most hospitable people I've ever met, and I I always wanted to be around that, the way that they made people feel, right, the way that they took care of people, the way that, you know, they they wanted to to be surrounded with laughter and love and things of that nature. Right? So from a very young age, you know, it it kind of, I think, was instilled in me, you know. And then I started bartending in college, you know, just to kind of help pay for, you know, school, And I I just fell in love with the industry there, you know. And there's hard days.

You know what I mean? Like, I, you know, I can't say that I can check my emotions at the door every single day, and we have to be aware of it, but we're human too. You know what I mean? Like, you know, there's definitely hard days, and I think as long as you can you allow yourself that one day, you know, you can go, alright. Today's not the day that I I engage with everyone on the floor.

You know, I keep my distance from the kids because I don't wanna, you know, just lash out for no reason. You know, I'm doing it to make sure that we can just get through today without me ruining it, you know. But ultimately, you know, I think for me, I'm refreshed every day is when I touch that table and they go out of their way to say how special their evening was. Like, that just like, okay, I can do this again tomorrow. You know?

And it doesn't happen every day, but, you know, if it does happen, you're just immediately, okay, I'm good. Like, we can Whatever is whatever is coming tomorrow, I'm good. You know what I mean? It's okay to have a bad day. It's not okay not to be self aware.

%. Yeah. Alexander taught me that. Who's Alexander? Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

Yep. Never read that book? I have. No. No.

It's my favorite job of that book. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Yep.

I was a slow learner, guys. Let's talk about LOTRA a little bit. We were talking about it before we, started recording and it came up and we, I, we kinda didn't get there but I wanted to because, it's a great spot and, you have really imaginative drinks there. And, you know, I I I said when I went to Lida, I went to La Otra before, got there early, had a drink, and then I was like, you know what? I just should've just done them separately.

You know, in my mind, it's like I could spend a whole day just kinda hanging out a whole night at La Otra hanging out there. The food looks great and all the drinks are super imaginative. But also the food, we talked about this. You have like the steak sandwich there and, I served. That that could be a dessert.

Yeah. Great dessert. And I talked to you before. You kinda grew up near where I did and when you're before the age of 21, there are certain spots where you can go and get drinks in New Jersey. I don't know if you still can, but some of them were Portuguese bars in Newark.

And I used to go there. You used to have like the pork sandwiches and and that kind of steak sandwich that you have there reminded me of that, and it kind of brought me a blast from the past. Was that done on purpose? Was that something that was, like, personal to you and David, like, that kind of, feel of the place? Yeah.

I mean, so we I mean, there's Right now, and what we really play is, like, nineties, '2 thousands hip hop, right, in that room, because that's what Dave and I kind of listened to kind of growing up, you know. So we we wanted something that hearkened to that. And and Ricky we wanted to give Ricky a space to kinda highlight his cocktails. Like, LITA is about the dining experience. La Otra is about the cocktail.

Right? So the program in LITA, as far as what Ricky's done, he's created cocktails that should complement and highlight the food in front of you or pair well with the food in front of you, which is tough to do with cocktails in general. I mean, beer works, in my opinion, much better with food typically than than a cocktail would. And I think he's done a great job to try to mitigate that somewhat, you know, and and create some really interesting, you know, cocktails that that do, you know, drink well with the dishes that we have. But LOTR is about the cocktail.

Right? The the food is kind of secondary there, and that doesn't mean it's an afterthought. It's just not, you know, the highlight. So, you know, we wanted to make it, you know, it's not a full dining experience, but we don't want anybody hanging out there all night and not getting a bite to eat. You know what I mean?

So we've we've tried to make it a little more engaging. Like, we have our, you know, the the Portuguese disco fries. Right? Like, we we have the prego, which is the steak sandwich. Recently, we just put the, Ibir Cano on, which is a a kind of a Cuban style Iberian sandwich.

Right? You know, we wanted we have the I, the Iberican burger, which is like a it's made out of Iberico pork. That's insane. Oh, that one's phenomenal, dude. I mean Maybe a Portuguese disco fries.

What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. So we wanted the food there to be a little bit more fun. You know, it's a la carte.

You can come in, have a snack, have a couple cocktails, you know, listen to the music, have a conversation. You know, there are people who definitely do what you do that came in for a drink before dinner, and we we have people who come in for for a drink after dinner, you know, and then there's certainly people who just come in and wanna hang out there for a bite. I mean, we there's a there's a few regulars that will not eat in our dining room and will only eat in low trip, which is phenomenal. But it's nice to be able to have those different experiences offered in the same space. Right?

Like, because they're very different experiences in my opinion. In Aberdeen, New Jersey. Yeah. Which is crazy because these places belong in New York City or Philadelphia. They are top top and like Ricky's drinks are are they they belong in New York City.

They belong in Miami. They but, I mean, they're super approachable, but you can travel there and and have lesser drinks than you can in Aberdeen, New Jersey, which is so important to me for everything that we've done here with alternate ending, Lida, La Otra, trying to work on something else coming soon, but, like, not for me, but someone else. Just bring them into Aberdeen, because I think it's become a spot in New Jersey, that you would never have thought that this is. This little corner definitely is. Yeah.

Yeah. This little corner of Aberdeen definitely is. Yeah. Yeah. It's cool.

That's incredible. I have to say that, I really want to try, really everything, there. And so what's the process of, if I'm listening to this podcast and and I'm going in, I'm like, man, this sounds amazing, how do I get a reservation? What is the best way for me to approach, getting a drink or getting some food at Lido? So all reservations are through Resi.

So just you can go online. If you're having any difficulty, finding a reservation, just go on our website, shoot us an email. We can, you know, always try to accommodate you, maybe shuffle some things around. But nine times out of 10, it's just easiest to go through resi. If you're looking to go to La Otra, it is first come first serve, so there are no reservations.

You would just walk in, check-in with the host, because it's gonna be dependent upon availability is dependent upon space available. So, check-in with the host to make sure that we have room. If we do, we'll walk you right in, and the space is yours. But, you know, come just check us out. You know, it's Right now, you know, Fridays and Saturdays are definitely, tougher to get a reservation.

And I think it's gonna get tougher with Dave just getting the nomination Yeah. For best new chef, you know, or best chef mid Atlantic, I should say. But, yeah. Rezzy. Don't text me because then I'm just gonna text Danny.

Don't text Scott. Damn it. Alright. My my my final question for you guys, and Dan, Zach might have something else for you, but, what's next? So you've gotten your nominations, you know, April, I guess you guys find out if, if you're a semifinalist or not.

Right? But what's what's next for Lita? What is Tonight's shift. Tonight's shift. Tonight's shift.

I I don't I'm not really Yeah. I don't think about anything other than, like, tonight's shift. That's I have We have a sh We have a busy night tonight. I have guests that are coming in that I wanna take care of. Have a good night.

I I really can't think too much further ahead than that. I I just I would lose my mind. I'm gonna ask you the most annoying question. Sure. For somebody who, let's say they're they live an hour away and this is not something they can do all the time, but they wanna come in, they wanna check it out, It's a one shot deal no matter how much they like it that's probably gonna be their only time going there.

Is there one, thing on the menu where it's like if you don't have this, you blew it. Yeah. I mean everyone's gonna give you a different answer. Right? Mine is the, carne de pork called a la de jana, which is a fairly, traditional Portuguese dish.

It's basically pork and clams. We're using the, sacreto cut or the secret cut of the Iberico pig. And we're actually cooking that to about a a medium. Right? And because of the, the the specialness of this pig, the Iberico pig is raised on a a complete, diet of acorns.

So there's such richness to it. You can cook this pork to medium. It eats melts in your mouth. It's got great marbling. But that's served with, pepara peppers, little nick clams, fried potatoes, and then we're using our patok sausage, like a steak sauce, and clam jus and creating a sauce out of that.

It is phenomenal. Like, I know I probably shouldn't say paella because that's what we're known for, but honestly, I mean, I I dream about that dish. Yeah. It's phenomenal. That was on the menu when you first opened it.

It's it's never going anywhere. If I have anything to say about it, you know, it's never going anywhere. You have a Caesar salad that's never going anywhere. Teach there, I do not have a question. I just He's, Scott, I just drooling over here.

Yeah. Yeah. We had cocktails at LOTRA when we were here a few months ago and I think about it probably daily about how good they were, and I tell everybody that I know that you have to go there, can't wait to have food, I'm excited. Yeah, we're going tonight. It's unbelievable spot.

It's going to be heavy. Yeah. And, yeah, it's just, you know, for me, people are at the bar, friends, I'm like, it's hard for me to be like, don't stay at alternate ending. I'm like, but I'm like, you gotta go next door. I'm like, even just for a cocktail, like have a beer here and then go next door, have a cocktail, and you're you're gonna, your mind's gonna be blown.

It's How how much of that is there? The people that come here for a beer first go there or have dinner there and come back for, like, a a beer after? It's pretty frequent. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's nice. I I think the first time I don't know if it was the first time, but one time we were eating there and I was, we were in that kind of center table and my back was to the kitchen, but my front was right through the window and all I could see was alternate ending.

I'm like, this is really cool. Like, this is the best spot in the house. So, like, I think when you're sitting there, you know what's happening. There's always a buzz in this parking lot. It's impossible to park here.

Oh, it is. And so people are That's the thing that I get the most is like, you know, I do feel terrible when you have like that 60, seven year old woman at a park, like past the bowling alley. Yeah. We're talking like a quarter mile down the parking lot. She's like, you don't have parking.

I'm like, I I can't. No. I mean, it's a it's a big parking lot compared to like it's decently sized. Between Scott and Alchanending, between us and then if there's a bowling league, forget it. Like that's, like the bowling alley, forget it.

It's tough, you know. I ask all my, our employees to park up in the parking lots to save these spots for us. I park in the back, but it's, it's a difficult, especially in the snow. I think we gotta get Harry to, get some stairs maybe, get stairs going down to make it easier for people. Yeah.

Yeah. Because it's it's just that kind of slowest storm. Yeah. But we're lucky because we had a cross easement between this parking lot and the top lot. If we didn't have that, I don't know if these places would exist.

Yeah. Because they No. That's true. Yeah. Yeah.

You'd have we'd each have three people in the building. Right. Yeah. That's all we could have parking for. Yeah.

So we're lucky. Yeah. Thank you, Paula. Yeah. Well, I wanna thank, you both for doing this today with us.

I'm really excited for this to be, our first episode for this season. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for your time. And that is it. Let's wrap it up.

Thank you again, guys. Alright. That was awesome. Yeah. That was fun.

Love you, guys.